Electric cars would be great if: if batteries were lighter and more efficient than they are, if electricity were in great supply, if batteries didn’t take so long to charge (with a great loss in electricity and efficiency), if elctricity were really cheap, it’s not…

Give me a livable range, say maybe 150 miles and I’m in

We don’t drive them because Detroit refuses to drag itself out of the previous century. If the American car companies were proactive instead of reactive, they would be designing cars based on the consumer and the planet’s future needs - not based on how many SUV’s and trucks Americans feel they need to buy today.

Big Auto and Big Oil are have been in bed together so long - it’s no wonder companies like Tesla are having such a tough path toward creating a better, more efficient, more earth-friendly way for us to transport ourselves.

Perhaps the brighter of those Ford, GM and Chrysler engineers who are soon to lose their jobs will do the smart thing - for them and for the future of our country/world: and that is leave the antiquated fossil fuel based auto industry behind and become the leaders of a brand new industry.

Detroit… in bed with big oil…
Guess they own Honda, Toyota, Kia, BMW, etc….

It’s because when they do make a good one (Tesla) it’s 100K. If I have a 100K to blow on a car I wouldn’t be worried about gas.

Make them affordable, places to station them, etc… and people will buy them.

It’s simply more expensive then oil right now. The Toyota electic started at 24K and is now going for close to 30K due to demand… yet a Corolla is 17 nicley equipped… which is what I bought… 15 MPG less but 10K + less in price.

We can. However, they are very expensive and rare (www.teslamotors.com). The reason they are not cheap is due to “economies of scale”. Simply put, it is cheaper to build 1 million cars than 100. Unfortunately, there is no demand for 1 million electric cars today.

The reason there is no demand is that there is no infrastructure. Do you know any electric car mechanics in your area? How about recharging stations? Without this infrastructure, people won’t buy electric cars.

Market economies dictate that when it becomes cheaper to drive an electric car than to drive a gas car, then people will start driving them.

The previous commenter needs do a little research on this topic. The main issues with electric cars have been the price of them and the battery. With cheap oil, the cost of the battery caused the electric cars to be prohibitively more expensive than typical fossil fuel cars. The battery technology of electric cars has not been good enough to replace the flexibility that normal cars have, in terms of distance traveled on a single charge and recharge rate. Not being an expert, I do question the statement that EV cars are more efficient and less likely to breakdown. I’m not sure that that is entirely correct. Additionally, the energy grid of the U.S. may not be capable of supplying the power requirements for recharging the batteries of EV’s if most people in the US had them. Construction of more power plants would almost certainly be needed. From the automakers point of view, it would seem to be a losing effort to produce a more expensive car with less flexibility that, in the past, would have a very small market. Finally, I don’t believe that the desire to produce EV’s by automakers and buy EV’s by consumers was present in the past, due to cheaper alternatives. This may be changing.

As for the Tesla Motors’ Roadster, a quick look on the internet revealed that these will be selling for about $200,000 and very few will be sold in the next two to three years. I do not believe ‘Big Oil’ is the cause of this price.

One of the biggest problems for electric cars (outside of the conspiracy theories) is the fact that we dont have effective enough energy storage solutions. You cant store nearly as much energy in batteries in your electric car as your fossil fuel car holds in its gas tank, which severely limits the usefulness of electric cars.

Also, the large majority of our electricity still comes from coal and other non-renewable sources, which in the end, make electric cars no cleaner than internal combustion cars.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with an electric car, other than our own stupidity. The average gas-guzzling SUV contains 1 driver and 0 passengers on an average commute of less than 30 miles. Yet we consumers insist on ineffieciency and ostentation.

It’s really a matter of convenience. At the moment, electric cars aren’t practical for long term use. As a commuter car sure. They work just fine. But imagine those cross country trips. Don’t you recall the days of yore when Dad would pull into the electric station and you’d regale each other with stories for several hours while the car charged?

Hence the issue, electric cars can’t be charged quickly. Sure, you could carry around a few spare batteries, but the size and cost of doing so wouldn’t be effective. Now I know solar is an option, but the last one I saw could only do 60 and it took up the space of two cars. And.. you can’t drive it for very long at night.

Practical is the issue here. I’m no lover of big oil, but until something comes along that actually makes sense, I’ll gladly switch. Those people clamoring for GM and Ford to switch immediately doesn’t understand economics. When Americans stop wanting gas cars and start clamoring for electric or hydrogen ones, they will make them.

Battery operated cars might be a alternative fine people of Southern California who seem to constantly tell the rest of us what we are doing wrong. I don’t think it’s very practical in northern Michigan with winter time temperatures of -20 F. Batteries do not perform well in cold weather and we need the heat of the engine to keep us warm. We also need this heat so we can see out the windshield.

Electric motors powerering the wheels is a perfect solution to the problem of improving overall effeciency of a vehicle; because it allows energy recovery on deceleration. But that doesn’t mean sacrificing range; the power source could be a small engine, or needing the weight and charge time of batteries; the energy storage for braking could be supercapacitors. For most of us, there is an electric (or partial electric) car in our future, the only question is when.

Indeed, the cost of gasoline at $5/gal is comparable to the cost of electricity, 0.12 $/kWh for gasoline vs. 0.1 $/kWh for electricity. However, if we started consuming electricity at a rate to satisfy transportation, here in CA we would pay much more than 0.1 $/kWh for it. Furthermore, if we completely switched to electricity we would need to increase generation capacity by a factor of 10, a laudable goal, but is not something we can do over night and not with electricity from renewable sources alone. Even the most optimistic estimates put electricity from renewables at something around 0.25 $/kWh. Finally there are the issues of range and energy density of available batteries. The Li-ion polymer battery in the Tesla gets us closer to a practical solution but this technology is not yet proven in an automotive application and it is not cheap. Perhaps more time and development will solve the issue of cost but it will take time and substantial effort. 20 years ago the Li-ion battery was predicted to be the best option for electric vehicles and it has taken this long to bring this technology to where it is today, not because of collusion between industries but because the technical problems are difficult and important materials needed to be invented before the Li-ion battery could be made to work. For the time being I’m going the hybrid route which increases gas mileage and lowers my carbon footprint. Hybrids aren’t cheap either, but it’s a step in the right direction. Who knows, when my hybrid wears out in 10 years maybe the Tesla will be ready for mass production.

So a reasonably good bicycle carries 1 person and can go about 30 miles an hour and weighs under 50 lbs. If an electric motor and batteries are added it would still be under 100 lbs. A car carrying 1 person at 70 miles an hour (for safety’s sake it’s said) must weigh over 1000 lbs. I think some changes must be made in our concept of what a car is.

How about AirCars? They use air highly compressed air stored in extremely safe carbon-fibre tanks to run the motor. The tanks fill in 3mins with a commercial compressor/4 hours using the on-board compressor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4

The range on just air is something like 200km. Running with a gasoline hybrid, tests indicate an air car can travel from LA to New York city using a single tank of gasoline to fuel the air tanks (via compressor.)

So why are we so concerned about battery powered cars. Intake — air –> exhaust –> air (for a purely air powered car). Now that’s amazing

Because batteries suck.

Rick Cockrell stated that:
“Electric cars would be great if: if batteries were lighter and more efficient than they are, if electricity were in great supply, if batteries didn’t take so long to charge (with a great loss in electricity and efficiency), if elctricity were really cheap, it’s not…”

Gas cars would be great if: if gas was more efficient it is, if gas was in great supply, and if gas was really cheap, it’s not…

As you’ll notice, I skipped the part about battery charging and efficiency. This is because there are in fact battery technologies in use (flow batteries) and in research/development that would eliminate the short life-span of a battery and could increase the speed of charging.

However, speed of charging is not actually a critical issue. Ask any modern carpenter how they manage recharging their battery powered tools. He will answer, “multiple batteries - one charges while the other is in use.” In practice, if we could develop a system where batteries could be rented instead of owned, a driver could simply swap his cell at a service station.

I’m very interested in and plan on trading my Honda for a Chevy Volt when released. Good bye gas pumps! It’s not for everyone but fits my needs perfectly. I’d rather give my money to nearly anyone than OPEC.

Regarding the issue of cold weather and electric car batteries, you are of course right the batteries don’t perform well in the cold, but it should be easy enough to install an electric “core heater” in the battery so that it would stay warm on cold nights similar to what the owners of diesels have to do in cold weather. It would actually be better, because the owner of a diesel may not have a place to plug in their heater at work, whereas the battery could keep itself warm.

Same goes for keeping us warm and keeping the windshield clear. An electric heater system (think hair dryers) would work just fine. An added advantage would be that it would be instant and you wouldn’t have to wait for the engine to warm up for the heat to flow on those -20F mornings. It is a question of will, not ability.

All you folks have it wrong! The truth is in the pudding. Big oil and big auto makers have been sleeping together for years and now the world is changing on them very quickly. Computers have increased the speed of our inventions and them boys know it. Oil is on the rise because there running scared and want to get all the pennies they can before the green giant comes, and big auto that recieved all there kick backs from big oil are going bankrupt because they were told to build gas hogs so the would suck down more gas that would create bigger profits for big oil and the oil companies sent the lobbiest to washington to buy our congress which were on board as well for a few bucks, but guess what!

Bush is trying to save the day to keep big oil by drilling in the wrong places, its pothetic! his own father signed off on the band in the early 90s and now he wants to save the day! Yea, save his wallet! the bushes and there big oil scam for tax credits for gas hogs 5 years ago to sitting back doing nothing as the oil sky rockets!

Well congress! what are you going to do now, the big green machine is coming and the middle east will loose,venezuela will loose, GM is almost bankrupt as well as ford and all the suckers that took the bait from big oil! these are trying times but what comes around goes around and hydrogen and electric autos are coming so them boys and gals will have to figure out a way to profit off these times.

I have two Toyota Priuses and there great! I am totally green and push for a much better world for our children and there children. There is nothing wrong with bettering the planet we live in!

Efficient, cheap and abundant in the US….. Hmmmm sounds like natural gas fits that description perfectly. Bifuel natural gas cars have been around for a long time. They run on compressed natural gas and if that runs out automatically switch over to gasoline. CNG costs $1.91 per gallon equivalent in Michigan and as low as $0.68 per gallon in Utah, get a filling device at your home and you can cut that price by 40% to 50% and save even more.

Ford in fact announced a new van that runs on both gasoline and compressed natural gas called the CNG bifuel C-Max, unfortunately their current plans are to sell it only in Germany.

On the other hand Honda can’t make the Accord GX (CNG only) fast enough for the demand and they are selling it only in New York and California and it only runs on CNG so out of luck if you can’t refuel.

Electric may be great when the tech on batteries finally breaks through but CNG is the way to go for the near future.

The primary question is how much electricity is needed? And where will it come from. The electricity that is generated today barely meets the demand (and the demand is far higher than it should be). This goes right to the core of building a national energy policy, one that deals with supply, the demand and the pollution.

I suggest everyone watch the documentary “who killed the electric car”

If you want an electric car BUILD ONE. It took me about a second of searching to find http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/

We used to be a great country. Americans used to be super handymen, able to fix anything that broke and improvise anything they needed that didn’t exist. Now we whine about what we don’t have, sell insurance, burgers, banking and software to each other and wonder why the giant companies that we serve aren’t fixing everything for us like they should.

Here’s a news flash people. There are only two ways you’re going to get an electric car - after mindbogglingly expensive engineering and legal processes to make sure the environmental impact is minimized, that backward looking rules and regulations set up for gasoline powered vehicles are followed and that the company is completely buffered from the flock of legal vultures waiting to profit on product liability lawsuits. The Tesla costs what it costs because it spreads these issues over a relatively small number of vehicles.

The other way is DIY and take the liability yourself. Good luck.

Oh and how much electricity? 200Wh per mile per the website. Thats .2kWh per mile or about 3 cents a mile if you’re paying 15 cents a Kwh.

To respond to some other comments from this post, there was an electric car being used for a while in LA. It was called the EV1. GM only leased these and once the lease was up, they gathered up the cars and crushed them…

Electricity, off peak hours = 3.8 cents/kWh. Perhaps 10 cents to pavement.

Gasoline to pavement 8.8 KWh/US gallon $4,50/gallon = 51 cents/kWh

Cheap coal, wind supplemented, as the primary source.

Has to be electric hub motor wheels, for simplicity, scalebility, and flexibility
Air to electric generator is a good option.

Car manufacturers are hesitant to change to all electrics because:
* They would have to retool and retrain (down time / no productivity)
* R&D costs would go up - newer technology / fewer engineers
* Cost of the battery is still high. (may go down when mass produced)
* Parts sales would decline. (Fewer moving parts to wear out)
* Auto repair orders would decline (Fewer moving parts to wear out).
* Car sales would eventually decline due to higher reliability (fewer moving parts to wear out)

Tesla motors have a decent shot in the market if they can segment their market where they have a low end, mid range and high end cars. Similar to Scion/Toyota/Lexus, Mercury/Ford/Lincoln and Volkswagen/Audi/Porsche marketing segmentation schema.

I see that a very quick charge battery is what is needed to make the electric car the vehicle o the future.Therefore I will start on battery design tomorrow and shoot for the goal of recharged in 1 minute or so with no carbon footprint, using cheap materials, and little environmental impact.
Sounds improbable but not impossible.Should have it done in 6 months or less., Going to make me a billion maybe a trillion dollars if I succeed.

Ben,

Please educate yourself and go to http://www.teslamotors.com. If you actually look at their site they have started delivering them and the price is around 100k. They will also start selling their next model within the next couple of years.

Our economy is fueled by locomotion. The ability to move goods and services in large capacity is the backbone of our economy and has been since the establishment of the railroad those many years ago. The economy was again given a boost with the automobile, allowing individuals to move relatively long distances to further their own interests. We are at a crossroads now with respect to our economy and our ability to move ourselves. As I see it we can do one of three things:
1. Continue to drill for and import fossil fuels and continue down the path of energy dependence, destroying our planet and eventually running out of this resource. This will do a lot to support the economies in the Middle East and Russia and I am sure they will appreciate our contributions.
2. Pretend to be “green” by manufacturing flex fuel cars, ethanol, and any number of combustion engine type contraptions that, in the end still pollute, maintain our reliance on fossil fuel, and keep us from true energy independence.
3. Engage the business and manufacturing might of America to develop the technology to allow the mobility that America needs in order to have a growing economy while pursuing the clean energy that is solar, hydroelectric, wind, and other. By creating non combustion locomotion we give the world the means to stop and even reverse the damage done via the combustion of fossil fuel at the same time causing potentially record setting growth for our economy by implementing this technology in public transportation and cargo movement.
Fossil fuel has had its time, we must move on and not squander the remaining resources of that old era on movement down an easy path when we have the knowledge and capability to cut a new trail and lead the world into a new era of responsibility and good stewardship.

electric cars are not very efficient in terms of getting its power. yes, wind is a form but in order to gather the amount of electricity needed to charge the batteries of these electric cars by wind we are talking about planting maybe 10 wind generators to gather enough energy to charge the batteries in a short amount of time so you don’t have to wait 5 or more hours to drive. Plus once charged, the electric cars have a distance limit of 300 some odd miles before needing another charge that will take another 5 hours.
not to mention most of the electricity now is produced by burning coal, natural gas, and oil so if you take those factors into account, the net efficiency of the electric cars are worse than gasoline powered cars.
i think we should have more nuclear power plants to produce our electricity because it is essentially free power, after the uranium fuel rods are done we can refine them into plutonium and put them back into service in the nuclear power plants.

Here’s a new water powered car reported by Reuters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME

After watching the above news clip, read this important article:
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=182&Itemid=60

I’d love to have an inexpensive electric car that would run 500 miles @ 80 mph on a single charge, and recharge in 15 minutes. That’s what I need.

We don’t drive electric cars because no one sells them at a price that anyone other than weird celebrities can afford. $200,000 for a car? Sorry, I don’t have that in my wallet just now. I think that if a legitimate, competitively priced electric car was marketed by one of the big companies and was not artificially setup to have low availability, people would buy them.

It seems to me that everyone who says that electric cars are not practical is basing it solely on what we have today. This is much the same as every other argument about “alternative energy”.

I agree that the current situation where electric batteries run for a couple hundred miles maybe and then have to recharge while plugged into a coal-fired electricity plant is poor. So, what’s the solution to that? Add solar panels to the roof of the car, maybe? The thin-film technology that is coming out seems really promising. These solar cells can charge the battery as you drive during the day (even if it is cloudy). Or wind power? Add technology under the hood to catch the wind that is generated by the act of driving… to charge the battery. Day or night. Imagine that — an engine that refuels itself by the very act of doing its job. A small gas engine could be left there at first to be an emergency charger, but once people are comfortable this would no longer be needed.

Anyway, this is just me, some dork in New Jersey, and maybe my ideas are stupid, but it will take thinking a little bit outside our conventional ideas to fix this. There’s no reason that our electric engines have to be confined to the constraints we’ve set up with our internal combustion engines. It’s just what we’ve done. What it will take is someone to step up and decide to try something. If taking a risk on this in a development shop would be rewarded, I’d bet a solution would be around the corner, since we already have sufficient technology to do this. We just have to put that technology together in a different way.

I’m still waiting for the flying cars…

There are several reasons, I think. First is cost. The Electric cars cost more than traditional gasoline engined cars. Second is speed, which is rapidly changing to not being an issue, in the past the electric cars could not do highway speeds. Third is range, traditional gasoline tanks hold enough fuel for several hundred mines, where the electric run autos couldn’t go more than a hundred miles or so on a charge, which makes using them for long distance travel a problem.

Price is something that the auto manufacturers will need to address to make the cars more price friendly to those of us with lower budgets, which might happen as demand increases and so does the number put into production. i don’t know how much it would take to convert current plants to from producing gasoline autos to electric autos, which might also be a factor with the industry.

Speed and Range are a direct result of the battery storage, and conversion - currently batteries are at best, less than 20 percent efficient with the power put into them.

While it is true that some Electric Providers do include alternative sources such as solar, wind and hydro, in general the majority of power does not come from such renewable sources. To suggest that electric cars are “green” for that reason, is misleading as power plants primarily use such things as oil, coal, or nuclear sources as their primary source. While there have been improvements to using these materials to produce electricity, they still produce pollution or other waste products that still present a problem to the environment.

electric cars are unpractical and expensive. range is limited. and i dont see people giving up heating, aircon, power steering etc.
using the batteries to run a heater would seriously decrease range.
just to make an example, try to mow and trim any sizeable lawn with electric tools.
transportation uses around a third of all crude oil.
of all the uses of fossil fuels, transportation is the most difficult to replace.
widespread use of nuclear power for heating and electricity generation would enormously decrease national crude oil consumption, driving its price down, and saving it for the most critical use, transportation.
but this would require large investments and unpopular political choices.. instead, pushing the nonsense of electric private transportation has two big advantages: it makes the greenies happy, and YOU pay the cost.

It seems to me that perhaps the most pressing need regarding our energy dependence is one that will be corrected by market forces as the price of fossil fuels climbs: to re-engineer the cultural geography of our country. Since WWII and the economic boom that followed, we have built a country that in its very nature is not sustainable. Whereas walkable neighborhoods with sidewalks, parks, local markets and the corner bar were once the standard of American cities, we’ve spent the last 60+ years transforming our country to become completely dependent upon the automobile.

And I’m not some Bohemian living in a loft saying this. I live in the ‘burbs myself. Fortunately, both my wife and I work from home, so our daily commute is the fourteen steps from upstairs to down. But we still must crank up the good ole internal combustion engine to do everything else. Want to take the kids to the park? It’s five miles down a busy US highway. Want to pick up a bottle of wine or a loaf of bread? There are plenty of big box options within a four-mile drive, all on a 6-lane asphalt slaughterhouse.

am an American, and by my very nature I love to drive. But I would like to save driving for family road trips and the gas-fueled ego boost of my inevitable mid-life crisis. Until then, it would be nice to be able to get my basic needs by walking or cycling… and not have to pay a 50% premium per square foot to have that privilege.

The technology is here in various forms, but government has to get on board and out of bed with big oil. We could pass laws that require cars
to get 100 mpg with existing technology but the Bush administration will not support this type of legislation. Perhaps the next president will be not be an oil man. I recommend a TV series you can down load from iTunes called “EcoTech.” It’s surprising how far we have come but still refuse to use the science at our fingertips.

Keep your Prius. It looks goofy, and won’t carry all the tools and equipment I need to haul around to do my job every day. Some people own SUVs because they need to carry their families around, and don’t have room to keep 2 or 3 vehicles at home. Also, what makes people think the Japanese automakers want to stay on gas burning cars? Japan imports all of the oil and gas they have to use, and would be much better off if they didn’t need it. We can wish all day that all-electric cars would be available to everybody next year, but realistically it could take decades for a practical and economical solution. Insisting that we don’t drill for more oil without knowing for sure that we have another solution coming in time to help us is just plain dumb.

Addendum: I meant to say when I succeed not if I succeed.Already have a prototype design and process in mind.

GM did have an electric car in the ’90’s, but because the oil companies complained about lost business, GM gave up the ideal. Now they are having to reinvent the wheel and trying to get back into the business. That car went 200 miles on a single charge and up to 80 mph on the highway. This isn’t astrophysics ya know, it should be a simple thing to build. Now we have to push the auto companies to build one that will do the same thing these days and improvements will come as demand increases. I would buy one right now if they were available in the USA.

The price — if they were CHEAP instead of $40,000, I’d buy one.

There was nothing wrong with GENERAL MOTORS’ EV1, or the Ford or Toyota versions. After 1 year of leasing by California drivers, these plug-ins were confiscated and SHREDDED.

CNN, why don’t you investigate what money changed hands among the auto makers, the oil corps. and/or the U. S. Government — that’s the REAL STORY.

Try viewing “Who Killed the Electric Car.”

We need the EV1 TODAY.

The battery. Battery technology is not up there yet. We need a nice, cheap battery with good storage. As for the rest of the car, we’ve been building electric motors for over 120 years now…it is a mature technology. Less moving parts will equate into better reliability. But we have the battery issue…

I’ll buy an electric car when it will handle my mission. I have a small SUV, and need the ability to carry that much stuff and people 400 miles, refuel in 10 minutes, and go 400 miles more. It needs to be able to handle and move in big city freeway traffic without causing a hazard due to inability to accelerate or keep up. It needs to be not a lot bigger than my current vehicle due to the small size of my garage.

If it doesn’t meet *all* of those requirements, I’m not interested.

It’s simple. There is too much momentum behind the oil economy. There are a lot of gas stations, but where can you plug your electric car in for a charge when on vacation?

Federal, state and local governments have enormous purchasing power and could in partnership rise up against the prevailing oil economy by purchasing fleets of electric cars and supporting installation of charging stations or installing charging stations. They could also offer financial incentives for corporations and individuals to purchase electric vehicles, although a profusion of charging stations and market penetration might make government incentives unnecessary.

Once an infrastructure is available, it would be hard to imagine Americans ignoring electric vehicles. Not only are they non-polluting, they are very quiet, and can in many ways match the performance we have for years enjoyed with the internal combustion engine.

With wind turbines across the country, and solar photovoltaics on every roof, we can also power these vehicles in a sensible manner with power naturally bestowed on us daily. It’s there for the taking.

It should be clarified: They produce zero emission “at the tailpipe”.
And although they do not produce emissions at the point of usage, using an electric auto requires that emissions be generated at the power plant. If you live in the Midwest, 70% of the electricity is generated from coal (roughly 50% averaged over the entire US), which releases more CO2 per unit of energy than oil, as well as being a major contributor to NOx, SO2, mercury and particulate matter pollution.

We should be more honest about how ‘green’ electric vehicles really are. At the present time, they are no better (and likely worse) than standard gasoline automobiles, and will remain so until we change how electricity is generated in the US.

I WISH I could buy an electric car for around the same amount as a gas powered car. One that would be able to go at least 200 miles between charges and could go up to 70 mph. If I had that opportunity, I would buy one TODAY. Just think how great it would be to never have to put gas in your car again? To drive past every gas station and laugh at those fossil fuel users. Ha ha ha. That’s my wish.

Did you hear me Tesla? If it were more affordable, I’d buy one of your Tesla Roadsters TODAY!

The Holy Grail is a battery with five characteristics:

1. Volumetric energy density of gasoline.
2. Size of typical gasoline tank
3. Rechargeable in fifteen minutes.
4. Life of 100,000 miles.
5. Replaceable for one thousand dollars.

Here’s a worthy Manhattan/Apollo project challenge.

My short, direct commute would be perfect for an electric vehicle. But as an engineer, I question the total utility and value with respect to reliability. Today’s best battery technology produces units that significantly degrade within a year, to which I’m sure everyone who has purchased a laptop in the last few years can agree. After paying probably $15,000 for the vehicle, another $5,000 every couple of years to replace failed cells is not very attractive. The motors are even more expensive and suffer similar problems.

Even as a middle class “techie”, I can’t compete with a reliability / MTBF cost that high. Come back when you can really market something we can use.

Look at http://www.aptera.com

The electric car is a proven solution that works great. With that said, there is a fatal flaw which must be overcome before it is viable for the marketplace. The battery life on an 18v drill is not always reliable - imagine your car running on batteries! When you are heading for a meeting a few hours out of town and are low on energy, you will have to fuel up. Even if you have an outlet, you will not have the amount of time required to fuel up and make your meeting. This will even be more of an issue at night, when there is no solar power to help keep the vehicle charged. Once, the generators are cheap and efficient enough to work with the axel to generate electricity, coupled with solar power, and the vehicles can run up to 400 miles per charge then it will be viable for all consumers. Currently, it is only good for in-town consumers.

We will be driving electric cars in the not too distant future, they are totally the way to go. It will be slowed down by lack of government backing though, but it is still coming. The technology exists today for the owner to generate much of the electricity themselves and get the rest from non fossil fuel sources. It’s all a matter of getting our act together and doing the obvious.

Batteries are heavy, batteries are expensive, batteries do not store much energy compared to liquid fuel, batteries take a long time to charge, batteries are environmentally unfriendly, batteries must be replaced periodically. I’d say that it is mostly because of the batteries. Electricity is comparatively cheap; however, if you consider the cost of the batteries as a consumable then the electric car is no cheaper to operate.

I guess I had the feeling that they arent ready for prime time yet. How long do those batteries last? I have never seen this point covered in any report yet I know that rechargeable batteries eventually lose the ability to recharge and have to be replaced. I had a shaver that lasted only 4 years. Id imagine that a battery powering a car would have heavier usage and might go bad even sooner than that. So how much do the batteries cost per year when you consider replacements?

How about imbedding electric rails into existing roads and use cars with contacts and a small backup motor for inaccessable areas - like the old model electric race car set some had as a kid.? You feed off the grid and the car is programmed and metered so that you pay off your electric bill.

They do produce emissions, though about half that of gas powered vehicles. Lead, nickel and cadmium are all extremely toxic - how will they be manufactured and recycled? Lithium is one of the rarest elements in the Universe. Pure ECs have limited range and long “refueling” cycles. Fine for an urban commute, not so good for a long trip, which is why they need to carry an APU. They are also expensive to produce - the current generation being heavily subsidized. Other than that, they’re great.

Also, with replacing batteries every X years there may be a disposal issue. Batteries contain some of the most toxic substances we use.

Batteries have been stigmatized to be expensive when replacement is necessary. Recharging a battery is fine if the charge holds, but some of my rechargable batteries hold a charge less than 5% of what they did when first purchased. Even used laptops have warranties that exclude the battery. I think better battery warranties, like free replacement for life, would drive demand for the electric car.

electric cars are in fact less efficient when it comes to consuming fossil fuels. you’re probably saying “WHAT?” right now. its simple really. the percentage of energy lost from produce electricity in a power plant and transmitting it through power lines is greater than the % lost by a combustion engine.

electric cars only make sense if they’re being powered by forms of renewable energy. also, to make eletric cars work we need much better and cheaper ULTRACAPACITORS to replace chemical batteries for energy storage.

Since fuel cells are NOT new, but in fact a highly developed system they should be used. They can be run on water - no refueling station needed. Since most cars could be converted for, at a guess based on current prices, between $10,000 and $20,000 there is now reason not to go electric. I am pne of the “poor” an disability and I am saving every possible cent to be able to do this. Think of the annual saving versus gas.

Electric car enthusiasts who think EV is the answer to saving the environment need to look at the copper mines needed for the motors, the battery production facilities, the coal mines that are still largely responsible for electricity being cheap, and what happens to the batteries after they are finished. My point is this: there is no magic bullet. We could be using half the oil in existing IC cars if technological improvements over the last 15 years were used to increase MPG instead of HP.

Why not force the auto manufactures to only produce light weight vehicles and then bann heavy, dangerous SUV’s from all highways.

If I install Solar panels to charge my battery-operated car - what can they tax?
Roads are generally paid for by gas taxes.

From a college student’s perspective, electric cars are simply unaffordable when your already living on student loans. If they were more affordable and more convenient they would catch on faster (especially with the younger crowd)

Mostly, it’s fear of taking risks. The car companies don’t want to risk a new technology, or upsetting parts resellers and aftermarket parts manufacturers, or oil companies who make the Hydraulic oil, Lube oil, Grease, differential oil, transmission oil that would all be gone in an electric car: no oil changes! no gas! That’s a big impact on the economy. No more “jiffy lube”, no more oil recycling…

And Consumers don’t want to risk being the early-adopter.

The technology is there and it can be done. People keep saying that the battery tech is not there yet…it is. Hybrid batteries, batteries with super-capacitors, can both hold charge and recharge very quickly. To address long distance travel, small CNG or gasoline generators could be “snapped in” for the trip and removed for general commuting.

Any company bringing a car to market at a consumer price of ~25,000 that could recharge in one hour or less on a 110v home outlet, drive 250miles and maintain a speed of 80mph would win the market. Of course this would be a disruptive technology and would shake up entire industries.

Take a look at this:
UK’s Lightning Car Company will hold the world debut of their Lightning GT EV at the London Motor Show on July 23rd. The Lightning GT has no engine and runs only on an electric motor powered by an advanced battery technology called NanoSafe.

Producing 700 horsepower, the Hi-Pa Drive electric powertrain is mated with nano titanate battery packs that produce 36kW of power. The batteries in turn power four magnet brushless motors that produces 120kW for each wheel enabling independent traction control and regenerative braking. That gives the Lightning GT a range of 250 miles with only 10 minutes of charging and high-performance with a 0-60 time of 4 seconds and a top speed of 130mph.

Hello!!!! 700 hp is more powerfull than a lot of big rigs and even a lot of race cars! And it charges up in only 10 minutes! That is equivelent to pulling into a gas station and filling up a gas tank. AND a fillup would be less than $5!

COME ON BIG 3. If UK can do it WHY CAN’T YOU!!!!

What’s wrong with electric cars? Ans. Nothing!

The thing is, energy is energy and it is finite. Gas has been (relatively) cheap for many years and the producers of Autos and leaders of the free world (along with market realities) decided to use gasoline to power the millions of internal combustion engines that were expected to criss-cross the world. This has served us all very well indeed all these years. Now the well is finally drying up. If you believe, or don’t believe, that cheap fuel is running out; doesn’t really matter, the realities of price have taken over. The folks that have been pumping light, sweet crude are now firmly in control of their own destinies and they really don’t like us.

We need light rail and other forms of public transportation, to give the U.S. a more sane approach to energy consumption. I’m afraid the good old days are over and that’s OK, as long as we adjust to the new world order. If we keep putting our hope into some developing new age marvel, I’m afraid our children are in for a tough time.

Mike
Kent Ohio

Banning “heavy, dangerous SUV’s” would also require a ban on heavy, dangerous, battery-laden electric vehicles. The argument that because something is heavy, or big it is more dangerous is flawed. Trains are REALLY heavy, Planes are REALLY big…I don’t want them banned.

An interesting question, and one that currently evokes many different opinions.

However, I must point out that by definition - electric cars have NO ENGINE. Otherwise they would be called a hybrid (or gasoline) car. Thanks for starting a conversation, but having such a major mistake only allows further misinformation to be spread down the chain…

What the heck, i’ll be the first to say it: Electric cars don’t sell because they aren’t cool.
Sure, you have your pretentious people buy them, your smug people, and maybe your genuine Earth lovers, but in the end, the cars just aren’t cool enough.
You own two Prius’? Did you buy them or lose a bet?
They have some good looking hybrids coming out (the Accord isnt too bad) but most are STILL not willing to trade in the big-block V8 for a battery pack. They like to hear the engine growl, perform dirty maintainence work on it, tune it up, etc and don’t want to give it up. Look at the new American ‘muscle’ cars; all are cloned from their 60s-70s parents. But thats only part of it.
Some of the electric car myths also need to be dispelled. Batteries aren’t reliable? Ya? Neither is any sedan produced by Chevy. Give me numbers, not blanket accusations. In addition, give me other reasons to go electric. Gas prices are one good one, but most wouldn’t say that the environment is good enough, simply because most don’t believe that one person can make a difference and that the environment doesn’t effect them in the here and now. Show me that electric cars cost less to maintain or are less prone to breaking down. Show me that they are easier for the common person to fix, survive accidents better, or will run longer.
And find a way to turbocharge them while you’re at it!
Electric cars don’t sell because they aren’t appealing to consumers. Gas prices add to their appeal but its not enough for most to trade up just yet. People bought into SUVs because it was big and cool, a manly minivan, or provided an illusion of safety on the road. Simply put: electric cars need a better image to sell.

Electric cars were delayed mostly due to insufficent battery or energy storage capacity comparable to a gastank at roughly 700 to 1000 km. The country as a whole has no domestic or foreign tech available to purchase to be used immediately on energy saving and environmental cars at present. Even if done now; it take roughly 15 years to be ready. So much for short term thinking. Algae crude anyone?
GM is doomed since the elecrtic car crush out..

wind turbines only work intermittently and have huge environmental impact.
one nuclear power station reliably generates the electricity that require 5000 one-megawatt wind turbines, and cost a lot less.
photovoltaic cells are expensive gadgets which find justification only where there is no alternative. like on mars or in space. you cant even power a laptop from photovoltaic cells.
“solar photovoltaics on every roof”
sure i can see how tha can happen in manhattan…

the cost of photovoltaic is massive, 2 to 5 times more expensive than electricity generated from traditional sources. i have a question here. if generating electricity with photovoltaic is convenient, why photovoltaic cells manufacturers, who can for sure get them cheaper than anybody else, dont use them to generate their electricity?

Do any of you buy a house on the beach in California so that it’s there when you go on vacation? Not many I’m guessing. You rent, right? Buy the electric vehicle for the 98 percent of your driving habits and the money you save on gas can be used to rent a gas guzzler on your 500 mile trip.

The reason prices are so high for electric or hybrid vehicles is because people don’t buy them. Quit making excuses why you shouldn’t buy them and make excuses why you should. Even if you break even or lose money over (let’s say) 5 years, think about it this way. You’re money is going to battery companies who will reinvest to make better batteries rather than going to the middle east. Also, think about it as a vote. With every vehicle you buy you are casting a vote on what type of vehicles you want on the roads in the future.

I hope electric cars will come about. They can be made more powerfull than gas burners. We use one to train cutting horses. The thing can out run a hores for the first 30- 50 feet. Most drag racers cant do that.I do not think ower precious government will allow this, Simpley because like ower food and gas is a gambleing table for speculators to run up the price and the government makes huge capitol gains tax. Electric is harder to tax.

Excuse the poor typing on my last comment. The Hydogen Fuel Cell was invented in, I believe, 1839. The hydrogen for it can be extracted from water by using a solar powered electrolyzer. You can do this yourself, and can install the system in your vehicle if you have the mechanical skill and the energy. Therefore there should be no need for stations providing you anything but water. There would be no need for gas or for recharge stations. You would save money and avoid pollution since the exhaust from a hydrogen fuel cell is water. Electric motors for cars and fuel cells are now available to buy. As I said, I’m saving all I can to be able to do this. The price I guesstimated includes a mechanic to install this system in your car; if you can do it yourself it would be less. Petroleum companies would not go out of business because there are a lot of other things made from petroleum so it should be no real problem to anyone.

I’m all for it. They have to be affordable. Maybe the auto manufacturers will see there is a demand for this. And in the future we are going to need to get off gasoline. Maybe if they make them and rich people start buying them in time the price will come down. The technology to produce them will become better and more affordable. Like cellphones, computers, microwaves and televisions. The first ones are expensive but the price eventually comes down.

Electronics companies are always looking for the latest and greatest battery technology. It’s just that none exist yet. You can’t blame “big oil” for that.

The problem with electric cars is the battery. They are too big, too bulky, too sensitive to temperature, and have too little capacity. Not to mention the hazards you create if your car gets into an accident.

Plus, in my area all electricity is provided by burning natural gas and coal. How is that any more environmentally friendly?

I think the fuel of the future is gasoline. It actually is a great fuel. But we could use less of it. Cars can be made more efficient through hybrid technology. People can properly size their cars (no commuting using a pickup truck or Hummer).

Batteries are just part of the problem. We should look at a totally electric infastructure, where the majors roads and highways provide the necessary current for the long range requirements. Intercity buses have been powered using this method for many years.

Batteries should provide power for off grid, and than vehicles can connect into the electrifide roadway.

“Oh and how much electricity? 200Wh per mile per the website. Thats .2kWh per mile or about 3 cents a mile if you’re paying 15 cents a Kwh.”

The PGE cartel here in California charges 33 cents for the last Kwh to residential customers. A 200% surcharge if you turn on more than one lightbulb during the month.

At that rate, it’s 6 cents a mile, or $3.60 to go 60 miles.

My hybrid gets 60 miles a gallon. Until a few months ago, I was saving money over electric.

Until the electric infrastructure here is corrected (eg. offering realistic baselines and off-peak rates), electric cars will just replace “Big Oil” with “Big Electricity”

Greg

I believe that speed was an issue. We love to go fast, faster. During the growth stages of automobile production was automobile racing. I think the speed mentality guided us to gasoline engines. We were able to get across the country and around the neighborhood in one car.

There are many very accurate reasons already posted as to why we don’t drive electric cars, so rather than be redundant, I would like to mention one that has not been brought up yet. Current hybrid vehicles produce extemely high Electro-magnetic Fields (EMF), around their occupants when running on their batteries. The same could be expected of any electric car. Though the final vote is not yet in on the subject, long term exposure to high EMF is thought to produce increased risk of leukemia in infants and brain cancers in adults. They are also believed to contribute to feelings of fatigue, sleepiness, hallucinations and paranoia; all attributes that certainly make the drive more interesting. The generally accepted maximum safe exposure level is thought to be around 0.5 milli-Gauss (mG), but there have been fields as high as 135 mG measured in the “cockpits” of today’s commercial hybrids. Just food for thought!

This may be a dumb question, but doesn’t the Prius charge its own battery while driving?

Electric cars have not caught on because there are not practical for most drivers. Battery technology has not improved much over the last 50 years, though some progress has been made. And then there’s the problem of batteries wearing out rather quickly and become toxic waste. Our cities, especially the ones that have grown rapidly in the last 30 years (Atlanta, Houston, Dallas-Ft. worth, etc.) were planned and developed in the age of cheap gas and relatively cheap cars. They are spawling urban areas, with little public transporation infrastructure, and where commuters my travel as far as 100 miles to work each day. Electric cars are not suitable for such distances.

Like it or not, none of the technologies under consideration are very good choices. Not even fuel cells, which produce only water vapor as an emission. Imagine a commuter city like Atlanta, with millions of cars producing a pound of water vapop per mile? What effect would that have on local climate? Also, water vapor is itself a very efficient greenhouse gas. And what long-term effect would millions upon millions of hydogen powered vehicles have on the planet’s hydrogen cycle?

The way I see it, the only hurdle to practical electric cars is the energy storage component(battery). If we can develop a universal, light-weight, modular high-energy storage device, then, when the one in your car starts to run low, you pull into a service station and have it quickly replaced with a fully charged one. I’m sure it could even be automated, where you pull up over a pit, and a hydraulic lift disconnects and drops your discharged unit, then installs a charged one. You wouldn’t even have to get out of your car, and it would take less time than the current method of filling a gas tank.
They’re already doing this, in a low-tech way, in India with standard battery strings, using a forklift to exchange batteries that are mounted on a pallet in the rear of minibus-type vehicles.

Are goverment will not be able to collect taxes on gas per gallon so why should they look at a alternative source its all a big game and its all about the money

Even though most electric cars don’t have the speed or range people are used to, millions of people still could use an electric car to commute to work and run errands. They get the equivalent of several hundred miles per gallon, and there are several nice models out (but not from the mainstream auto companies). I am buying a Zap Xebra and adding photovoltaic panels to my roof.

One problem is that they still have to be plugged into an electrical socket. The post mentioned that electricity CAN come from renewable sources, but for the most part it does not. You plug you electric car in get electricity from dirty coal and the like. If the renewable energy supply increases, I think the electric car is a viable option to combustion engines. Other than that, and the limited range of the vehicle, it is a step in the right direction.

I think it is important to consider the consequences of any new means of transportation. Let’s say ten years from now we’re all driving battery cars. Fifteen to twenty years from now we’re going to have to dispose of millions and millions of worn out batteries. The type of battery we choose needs to be safely disposable or recyclable. Otherwise we’re trading one problem for another. Same with hydrogen: What will be the effect on the climate if millions of cars are pumping steam into the atmoshere? Probably not worse than what we have today, but but worth contemplating if it might cause big cities to resemble saunas.

The comment that electric cars are zero emmisions is absolutely false and misleading. There are lots of polutants emmited from the power plants that charge the cars, and to produce the batteries and the vehicle itself. The battery disposal is a major issue also. The real solution to our problems is a major energy conservation effort, and reliance on renewables, which many of these options have their own flaws. We need to choose the best of the evils, welcome to the world of physics.

I have put together some info on energy use. Electric Cars are great just one big problem - People forget where the energy comes from.
Sure make a lot of electric cars and power them with clean renewables like wind or solar sounds great. Just unfortunate that wind and solar cannot meet the huge demand for energy that large scale use of electric cars would create.

Check out

http://www.FuelFrenzy.com

Fact is that given todays technology gas at even $10/gallon is very difficult to beat!

The real problem is we have 7 Billon people using a finite amount of energy like it will be available forever and at a very low cost.

Anyone who hasn’t seen the movie “Who Killed the Electric Car” should do so before leaving a comment on this blog. Many of the myths about electric cars that are being expressed here are disproven in the movie. GM’s EV1 was so successful, potential buyers had to “apply” for one. So, why, then, did GM try to “disappear” all traces of them out of existence? I’d love to have a Tesla, but it is way out of my price range. However, Tesla can’t even meet the overwhelming demand from those who CAN afford one. Once they raise the capital from these sales and gear up to mass produce electric cars, just watch what happens to the price and the status of Tesla Motors among automakers. If every US car owner switched today to EVs, yes, we probably would need more electric generating facilities, but for the time being, off-peak electric generating capacity is underutilized, so EVs owners could avail themselves of that by charging their cars overnight. Meanwhile, as a country, let’s see what we can do with our wind and solar resources so that they can fulfill increased electric demand in the future.

Hybrid or electric car that gets ~300mpg for under $30K: http://www.aptera.com

Currently only sold in CA since this is a new company.

The golden ticket is batteries. We need cheaper and lighter batteries, batteries with higher engery densities…otherwise we need to rethink the automobile. We need something like a light weight two passenger vehicle. 99% of driving is done by one person five days a week. A combination of two solutions to the problems will shape the future.

Check the connection between Cobasys and Chevron. Chevron owns the patent for the nickel metal hydride battery that is used in the Prius. Toyota is not allowed to build a plug in electric model using the nickel metal hydride battery because Chevron says no. Recent commercials by Exxon talk about a lithium battery improvement they are working on. Are they going to lock up the patent for that as well? The ev conversion I am working on uses lead acid batteries. I may never be able to use a more advanced battery if Big Oil has its way. Until more car companies become courageous enough to stand up against Big Oil, shade tree mechanics will build the cheaper ones.

A lot of the challenge here seems to be range. As mentioned, carrying extra batteries is not practical, and until a battery exchange “gas station” network is established (which will likely be controlled by big oil since they already own the practical locations/facilities), all we can rely on is plugging our car in at home or possibly at work, although I doubt most employers would agree to subsidize our transportation costs. Why not supplement electric with other small footprint technologies like CNG or hydrogen to extend range?

Ben, What they mean by “more efficient” is that more of the “stored energy” is transfered into forward motion to move the passenger of the vehicle. In a gas engine, much of the energy (over 60% of it) is directly turned into heat through combustion. Another 10%-20% is turned into heat through friction, so you end up with only a very small portion of the energy actually making to the wheels (much of that is wasted on aerodynamic drag) which eventually is transfered through the body of the vehicle to your behind. In an electric vehicle, most of the energy goes straight to through the motor to the wheels without a lot of fanfare, although electrical resistance does kill some of the efficiency (also generating heat) it’s nowhere near what a combustion engine wastes.

California doesn’t even have enough electircity to power their air conditioners. What makes you think they can power a fleet of cars too? Proponents say to charge at night when demand is low. That works today, but if EVERYONE is charging at night, do you really think demand will remain low?

Remeber what ethanol did to the cost of food? Switching to Electric cars will jump the price of electricity, and create one more thing that people can’t afford. You’ll hear complaints that people can’t afford to buy food for their family AND keep it cold.

Coal plants are still our primary source of electricity, and carbon emissions. They would need to run full capacity 24-7, so you’re not really reducing emissions, just shifting them somewhere else. Aside from carbon, they also release nasty chemicals like mercury.

If you are an enviromentalist, you should advocate less travel, PERIOD. Changing out the technology of the fleet is a band-aid solution that will never address the real problem.

No one here seems to be talking about the amount of energy that cars use. While there are forms of clean electricity to be had, right now we can not even add enough to the electrical grid with it to keep up with demand without cars.

No one likes the reality that as of now, electric cars will burn diesel and coal. The only fuels capable of adding significant amounts to the grid at this time. Unless or until the TWIN problems of batteries and electrical generation are solved, electric cars aren’t going anywhere.

Car companies make most of their money on the maintenance on and replacement parts for their vehicles. Car companies killed their own electric car a few years back because they weren’t making any money because of lack of maintenance/repairs. BTW, the people who owned the electric cars from GM/Honda/Toyota/Ford, loved the vehicles.

In the past, LA used to have a trolley system until GM bought it and shut it down so that they would force citizens to buy/use more cars.

Until, the car makers see it as MORE profitable than making gasoline powered cars, they won’t!

Electric cars ARE NOT zero emmissions. As long as any of our electical generating capacity produces emmissions, electric cars cannot claim to be emmission free. Even if you put solar panels on yopur roof for the sole purpose of keeping you electric car batteries charged, you are still using other emmission producing electricity for other things that you could eliminate by using the solar power. The same is true on larger scales, county, state, country, etc…

What we nned to concentrate on is zero emmissions electric generation. Wind, Solar, and New Generation Nuclear. We can eventually phase out all emmission producing generation, and then drive zero emmission electric cars. Along the way perhaps the batteries will provide sufficient range and/or fast charging to actually provide feasible replacement of current technology.

I can think of several reasons why we do not use electric cars:

1. Oil and gas companies lobby heavily against electric cars and other RENEWABLE sources of energy. (Think about it folks: it’s just like the pharmaceutical companies. There is no money in CURES or VACCINES. They only make medications that allow you to live with the disease so that you have to pay for your pills monthly for the rest of your life). The same concept applies to energy companies. If they sell you a fully reliable solar powered car today, you will never need “fuel.” Thus they lose a constant revenue source. (This is why the oil-allied Republicans (i.e. McCain/Bush) are pushing for domestic and offshore drilling and a gas tax holiday. Both of these are temporary fixes that would only make oil companies richer).

2. Car manufacturers have not been willing invest the time, money,a and resources. This is likely due to their relationship with oil and gas companies. Anyone who doesn’t believe that automobile manufacturers are in bed with energy companies obviously does not understand basic economic incentives. This is a bootlegger/baptist situation. Same goes for the lobbying.

3. Electricity costs will rise if much of our nation switches to electric powered cars. Right now a car that gets 20 MPG will cost 20 cents per mile to drive (at $4 per gallon). Comparatively, most electric cars average about 1-3 cents per mile in electricity costs. If millions of vehicles begin using electricity, costs will rise. Meanwhile gas costs will drop. This could create a disincentive to switch to electric cars. This problem can be fixed by investing in more electric power, such as nuclear power, clean burning coal, wind, solar, and tidal energy.

4. Range. Most electric cars barely have a 200 mile range. If car manufacturers can double that range, electric cars will become much more attractive. Also manufacturers should consider in-vehicle charging like solar panels or small gas engines.

I am excited about the use of solar power for lighting, pumps, heat, etc. Can the panels and components not be made with recycled materials? The panels actually recharge a battery!

I see no reason why all “clean” sources cannot be used to power an automobile… Solar panels incorporated into the body of the vehicle; Some type of fan system, similar to the radiator fan, to provide wind charging while moving; Electrical charging while in the garage (powered, of course with the stored energy from the home roof solar panels and “windmill” systems already in place for our home needs.)

Yes, it costs money to implement those things but since we need to update our infrastructure anyway, why not do it right the first time? Do we really want to be enslaved to oil owned by others?

It’s simple economics-gasoline would have to cost around $10.00 per gallon over a four to six year period in order for a $30+K hybrid to become cost effective vs. a 13K Saturn ION that I drive now. With a slight modification to the air intake, and keeping my freeway speeds below 65 mph, I get 38+MPG.

Right now anyone buying hybrids is doing so to feel good about “saving the planet”, neverminding where that couple of hundred pounds of used battery is going to end up in 5 years or so.

I can think of better ways of spending money to reduce emissions and create alternative power than blowing my money on hybrid cars, like installing solar power arrays on my rooftop (doing that), or having my home upgraded with high effeceincy windows and siding (did that). The energy saving gained via these permanent solutions far outweighs the cost/ benefit of the current hybrid electric automotive technology.

Individuals need to find permanent solutions to energy issues when corporations and utilities are either too slow or not financially motivated to get the job done, not go running out to buy the latest gizmo they slapped together to make the public feel good about them after decades of squandering our technology and wealth.

Americans need to stop complaining, research the problems, and exercise some personal initiative when dealing with our current energy issues. No one innovates like Americans can, we just have to roll up our sleeves and get to work!!!

Retail cost is the single biggest issue. As soon as a company can figure out how to build a 150-mile range runabout for city commuting under $10K, everyone’s attitude will change. Too bad the major motor companies today won’t be the ones to realize that success.

All of the major manufacturers have insisted on placating the US consumer public’s “want” as opposed to “need”. The US has voted with their wallets on vehicle design for the last 10 years, leading the big three to generate Ford Expedition, Quad-cab 4×4s from every maker, Hummer, Escalade, Navigator, etc. etc.. Nissan and Honda followed with Titan, Ridgeline, etc. not wanting to miss the market. Not only that, the manufacturers then continued the momentum by pumping these vehicles through endless advertising. No one had the vision to say “hmm, maybe we oughta be serious about plan B…:”. Sadly, you know who is going to kick-start the economical electric car revolution? China or India, by government subsidization of the start-up costs for production of an inexpensive model that can be made in the 100s of thousands.

Many, many mornings in the winter up here it is -40F….enough said!!

The big picture here that a lot of people are missing is america’s dependency on foreign oil. A switch over to an electrical energy source that can be produced within the united states (i.e. coal, wind, nuclear) would change the dynamics of the american economy in so many ways. The price of foreign oil is the sole reason why the american economy is sputtering today.

America is supplying countries in OPEC with enormous amounts of money that is leaving the US economy. I would rather any profits of paying for electricity go to an american company that people would get paid back in stock dividends rather than supplying money to greedy OPEC.

New coal power plants today are actually really efficient and have cleaner emissions that oil powered cars. Coal is an abundant resouce in the United States and should be utilized. There is technology to capture CO2 and inject it into empty gas wells to store. Once more renewable energy sources come on line (wind, solar, geothermal) you can phase out coal/natural gas power plants.

What many people don’t realize is that car dealerships make more money from their service department than from actual car sales. The power and complexity of an internal combustion engine requires heavy maintence - electric motors do not. Replace the brushes every couple of years (along with the batteries which varies depending upon the type) so and you’re good to go. Eliminate replacement parts for dealerships and you eliminate a huge revenue stream. The thought process is no different than many industries. We can make light bulbs lasting 20 years but then you sell a lot fewer bulbs. Its simply part of the business model aimed of maximizing profits - not about creating the best products possible for the benefit of the consumer.

When the automobile first came to market there was no fuel source available on a mass scale. Henry Ford’s cars were designed to run on alcohol. Something a farmer could produce. Gasoline was a waste product and was being dumped in to rivers and streams. Most people didn’t have electric. It seemed like a good idea to take a product businesses were trying to get rid of and selling it.

Wow - what a lot of uninformed nonsense one finds here!

Batteries are bad? Thats a lie. The innovations in battery technology are astounding - considering that the oil industry/government has fought battery research for 30 years.

Photovoltaic is more expensive than “regular” electricity? That’s been a lie for more than ten years, yet it’s repeated as catechism by the “conservatives” - who seem unwilling to conserve anything but their own power.

What about flywheels? The latest versions, “carbon-fiber composite rotors that have a higher tensile strength than steel and are an order of magnitude lighter” than steel - according to wikipedia, have been ignored for the same reason all the problems with the oil economy - America is run by oil-men and has been 100 years.

If, starting in the early 1970’s when scientists first called attention to the problems with America’s energy systems, a tiny percentage of the money wasted on nuclear power and military gadgetry had been directed into alternative energy and electric cars there would be no energy problems today. As it is, the high price of oil is purely political - the oil men who control the monopoly on transportation in the US have worked very hard to make it possible to screw you at the gas pump. Still got that “W” sticker on your car? “Ha ha” - Nelson, the Simpsons

Okay, so if we’re not concerned with the negative health side effects of cocooning ourselves in high EMF fields, then Lithium Ploymer becomes the battery of choice. They are extremely high energy per pound compared to pretty much any other type of battery commercially available today. They will also hold a charge much longer than NiMh batteries and show no evidience of the “memory” charge effect associated with NiCD or NiMH. The only catch (other than being a bit pricey), would be that great care must be observed during the charge cycle. All Litium rechargeables are subject to explosion if allowed to overheat during the recharge process. This includes the ones in your laptops and cellphones.

Although all technology has evolved in the last century, batteries are essentially the same, heavy devices that they once were. Also, consider what goes into batteries and what happens when they have reached the end of their life cycles: heavy metals and you throw them out (even though you’re supposed to recycle them). Heavy metals in landfills = groundwater contamination

3 totally different issues are at play in electric cars:
1) Infrastructure: We have really not built a sizable new electric gernerating station in the US since 1980 because of regulations and the not in my own back yard syndrome. The electric power construction industry has been in mothballs for 25 years and there have been few developments inefficiency and cleanliness in this time period.
2) Battery storage technology: this is growing by leaps and bounds lately but has been a dead issue because of the low price of fossile fuels for years. It probably was a disservice to US consumers to have artificially low gas prices over the last 20 years because it made no economic sence to innovate more costly solutions to familiar problems.
3) Economics: We really have not heard the whole story about the total life cycle cost of electric and hybrid cars. Starting with the best batteries available we need to count the cost when the materials demand goes up 1000 fold, relaize that the batteries will not last more than 2-5 years, and plan to replace them ($7,-$10,000). Now we need to figure the cost of recycling the materials into new batteries rather than filling landfills with them. Finally we need to figure the cost of providing the additional electric power in the form of new generating stations. I’m sure some think tank has all these figures, but they are not talking about them in the industry presently.