Watching the Arctic ice melt

where's the link?

Type on the highlighted word "here", or just go to

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh

Thanks
PD

Waiting for the Northwest Passage, to open uo commercially, for hundreds of years. Did the Chinese or Japnese sail it ? The Maps found by Columbus ?

Google: "Extensive spruce forests used to cover the southern half of Greenland, according to a Canadian study that gives a remarkable glimpse of the icy island's green past and possible future."

Ice melts quickly. If we speed up the melt, delay the ice age a little longer ?
Carbon soot bombers, cover the ice, melt, and another geological springtime.

Go to the link and WOW what a difference between Sept 1980 & 2008, but why did they use the end of the summer? ...for the WOW factor?

Try Feburary or June over the 28 year period. No wow ...not sure I can tell the difference.

Like antonio said, you guys are getting worked up about nothing. This is the end of the summer so everything has heated up as much as it would and now you will see some meltage. Just wait til winter, it still gets cold up there.

Franko is on it...

This has happened thousands of times in the past... and it was prior to cars...

I look forward to the better climate of the future... but don't worry it won't last.... the cycle of the Earth will continue on...

I think Franko is our 'person of the month' PD! seriously......

So I guess when the midwest becomes an inland sea again like it was in the past, conservatives will say that thats just part of the normal climate cycle.

Aug 1, 2008 thru Sept 1, 2008. Looks like about 20% smaller?? Is that possible in one month's time? Seems extreme to me...

The only good side to global warming is that Texas, Kansas and Oklahoma will get the worst of it, as they so well deserve. Enjoy the many 100+ degree days.

THIS BLOG WAS SPLIT INTO 2 SEPARATE BLOGS!

heyy, i compared the images...... i do not understand why is it happening that wayyyyy.. http://www.investorlin.co.in

"the cycle of the Earth will continue on…"
The last big change was when North and South America joined
"Panama: Isthmus that Changed the World"
This the reason for ice ages. Poor circulation traps heat in trophics.

Comment by a Physicist: "But climatologist sometimes has to learn physics (meanwhile they can average temperature, ice cover
etc.)."

"Not Even Wrong", even a deeper insult. Next, Not Even Totally Wrong ?
Such is the regard of one scientist of anoher.
Ready to count the Ice Cubes in your drink ? most important are local effects ?

It's sad when science is now just as tiresome as politics – in fact that is getting to be a very blurry line.

Yes, lots of ice melt this summer – but from last year to this year at this point, the Arctic has GAINED 700,000 sq km of ice. If THAT trend continues......

We have no long-term records from the Arctic. It is interesting and exciting, but not necessarily meaningful.....

so comparing these pictures year to year I noticed a huge ice is more dense and larger, so much for their "global warning" that the ice never comes back. Just like the earthquakes and hurricane seasons everything goes around in cycles. As much as we think we know about ourselves and this great planet we live on, we really don't know much, a few hundred years of scientific written history cannot compare to the 1000s we don't have on record.

I always think back to Lewis adn Clark and the other explorers who first saw Los Angles Bay and teh discriptions they wrote down, "green fog" comes to mind. AND that was WAY before the auto industry. Some places on earth just aren't circulated well, go figure.

Enjoy the mild winters while you can

I don't see a problem here. In fact, I'm hoping in a few more years, I'll be able to drive my SUV across the artic...how's that for a real adventure?

Gee Greg, I live in Kansas. I don't recall doing anything to you- I would not wish any harm to any state. Last I heard, we were all part of the US. Thanks for the warm wishes...

Maybe Dr Lovelock's Gia theory isn't too far off. It looks like the earth's natural light reflector, the snow in the arctic, is dimiminshing. The faster it goes away the more sunlight is kept on the surface, keeping it warmer then causing the ice to melt even faster. I guess that the questions to be asked is, is this the natural way of the earth? Are we causing it? Or are we speeding up the earth's natural evolution?

As to the SUV tim, I think we will all be looking to invest in boats instead of trucks if the arctic were to melt entirely.

Arctic ice is floating on the ocean, so when it melts sea levels are not significantly impacted...for the same reason your glass of water doesn't overflow when the ice cubes in it melt. No inland sea in the Midwest, sorry. However If ice on land...as on Greenland or Antartica...melts into the sea...look out New York (and the rest of the world's low lying coastal cities.)

Albedo, the reflectivity, changes considerably, a regulator to near stability ?

Pacific Decadal Oscillator and similar other, outside of tropics, cyclical events, now thought to be just "debris" of the real heavy duty trophical action. Similar to thunder rattling your window, but not your window causing the thunder.

North and South Poles just a Jojo, to the events in the trophics ?
Getting whipsawed, regularly, extremes, while the trophics hurricane stabilized

Mike,

I went back to August 3rd and noticed the same huge "melt". It must be 130 F there...to cause that much melt in one month. This is serious stuff. Guess I'm going to be able to buy some ocean front property in Minneapolis after all.

Of course, the Republicans want to elect a guy who has voted against the environment time after time, with a running mate who doesn't believe global warming is real and doesn't think polar bears are endangered and hunts wolves from helicopters.

Some have realized that Earth is not a Museum.
We can adjust, even the temperature, to our conveniwnce.
Dubai, Palm City, the future of the East Coast ?

Re: Franco‘s:
“Google: “Extensive spruce forests used to cover the southern half of Greenland, according to a Canadian study that gives a remarkable glimpse of the icy island’s green past and possible future.”

Ice melts quickly. ..."

I did. The study was the subject of this article:
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/topics/technology/science/story.html?id=82fe2dc6-5c2d-430c-bd12-58fa1bbb5fc8

“It is based on pollen found in sediments taken near Cape Farewell at the southern tip of Greenland. The sediment cores, dating back almost a million years, were collected by the international ocean drilling program and analyzed in De Vernal's lab.”

The article pointed out that the study showed ferns and trees were present 125k to 400k years ago, not a mere 10,000 or so years. The data went back almost 1M years and found that:
“ … it took a prolonged 20,000-year warm period to melt back the ice sheet enough to allow spruce forests to grow over the southern half of Greenland.”

Further,
“paleoclimatologist Alexander Wolfe, co-author of a Science commentary that discusses the findings."

He stated:
“"What's remarkable about this (the past ice retreats) is that they occurred with greenhouse gas emissions that are about 30 per cent lower than they are today,"

Before you rip this up, check out this site:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/08/north-pole-notes-continued/

What is happening to the North (of all of us) is grossly under reported. It, our observing what the artic ice is doing year after year, should simply do more than wake us up.

I think I understand, by reading your comments, you prefer the Earth to be a big sandbox. I hope I am mistaken.

Check this out. FYI for last years ice growth season 10/01/2007 to 03/15/2008 and how thin one year ice can move .....

Now, large land fast ice shelfs are breaking free from the land, which will now allow much greater circulations in the region.

http://www.homerdixon.com/download/arctic_flushing.html

http://nsidc.org/seaice/processes/circulation.html

Good lnik, Arctic Ice Gyrating, churning against beaches, forming sand ?
24 hour tanning beaches. Nuke the Bering Straight, Gaia to Nirvana.

"I intuitively can say is that it’s hard to believe massive volcanoes under the arctic have less effect on the ice than the greenhouse gases"

Just think of the future of arctic tourism! Nome Tropicana, drinks are free!

A Nation that bugets more for the Military than it does for Education is living in fear and ignorance. A nasty little secret is that we do not need oil, coal, natural gas, solar, wind or nuclear to generate electricity. Nikola Tesla discovered free energy, also known as Radiant Energy, over a century ago. It was suppressed by his major financial backer, J.P. Morgan because venture capitalist could not profit from it over the long run. Yet, we continue to support industries that keep us in ignorance and destroy our environment. One has to ask themselves, why?

Maybe those Spruce trees will grow in Greenland again and take up for lost deforestation in the tropics? Spruce trees in "Green"land? That must mean that they were their before the industrial revolution polluted the air? How could that happen? That would suggest climate change is cyclical and independent of human influence? Naw that can't be right. Well with high gas prices I'm driving less. That's my personal contribution.

"in ignorance and destroy our environment. One has to ask themselves, why?"

Sometimes the town museum has to be wrecking balled. We need the space, Equilibrium, homeostasis, balance of nature, just a museum pieces. Past, a Faith, frozen in time. Not chaos, but some predictability, from conservation equations,

We need a Nikola Tesla machine to melt the Arctic ice.
Destroy, to gain warm sandy beachfront. Any environmentalist object ?

I agree with you Chris. I realize that when ice that is in the water melts it does not change the displacement of the water. Unfortunately, that water based ice is holding back a whole lot of land based ice. Greenland or Antartica's ice would not only raise the sea levels but it could very well cause a stall in the Gulf Stream, if the mass is Greenland. Then the world would be looking at another ice age.

John, your'e right. I am not one of the people that asked who Palin was when her name was announced as a vice presidential candidate. This woman has been upsetting me with the whole wildlife thing for a while now. Just as the wolves came off of the endangered species list she allows shooting them for sport from planes. They are helpless out there and if they are not killed instantly, they suffer as they are left to die. Most of the people that shoot them do not even want them as a trophy. Sorry, I got off of the arctic ice subject. I have been a member of Defenders of Wildlife and that subject gets me going as well.

"Unfortunately, that water based ice is holding back a whole lot of land based ice" Look see, calculate that effect. the Arctic Ice Gyre is slurping the land glaciers, flushing to Atlantic, as shipping dangerous icebergs ? Or not moving and holding Glaciers back ?

"could very well cause a stall in the Gulf Stream"
Check out the T^4 God. The hurricane rattles the windowns, not the reverse. Polar long term Cyclers, just debris of trophical events, a scientist's calculated, modeled, opinion. Trophics are the real action, If we created another Antarctica, North Pole version, plug up the Bering Straight, expect T^4 God to really Hurricane, Unhappily, still cannot boil a potato in the Gulf Stream ? The T^4 God not Gulf Coast stew make. Need the water for the stew, but just evaporates, cooling, before boiling.

Palin is not a real woman ? Looking after, providing for US ? Can she stare down McCain, Obama, Osama, EnviroSuicideFaithZombies. Take lessons from: "Dominance – The Eyes Have It!" not needed ! http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/BurchDominance.shtml

Did you know what got Lewis Pugh stuck? Ice.
And do you know what Northern Ireland's Environment Minister, Sammy Wilson, said today:
"Resources should be used to adapt to the consequences of climate change, rather than King Canute-style vainly trying to stop it"

Ecotretas
http://ecotretas.blogspot.com/2008/09/escndalo-da-irlanda-do-norte.html

To: Ecotretas
Good link. Finally, more politicians see, shooting, blowing your economy up, suiciding for the Koran's 72 virgins. just a false EcoTerrorst,religion. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7599810.stm

To: Ecotretas
Good link. Finally, more politicians see, shooting, blowing your economy up, suiciding for the Koran's 72 virgins. just a false EcoTerrorst,religion.

Hey I live in Kansas Im 25 drive a small car and and have not done anything to hurt another state. Kansas is great anyways have you been here? What kind of comment is that!

I hear fiddling...

Horrible situation we are facing with global warming and polar ice caps melting. The great thing about this is that this is an ELECTION YEAR! Want to stop global warming? Great, then DON'T vote for the person saying "drill baby drill!" who just happens to also think global warming has nothing to do with human activities.

you think it will be fun to live through an ice age? the human race will end....slowly

King Canute had Faith, but not the power of technology.
Man, working with Mother Gaia, moves more Earth than Mother Nature.
Focused action at the tipping points, can produce good results.

Fatalistic this, fatalistic that ?, look at the Mother Gaia offered options

A new science-based report on "U.S. Population, Energy & Climate Change" (online at http://www.cepnet.org) has just been released that concludes that population trends must be addressed as a key part of the larger climate change issue because it is a "big multiplier" that "intensifies the rate, scale, and scope of both the root causes and effects of climate change." The effect is particularly intense in the United States, since Americans use more resources and energy per capita than the global average. The report says that there could be "1 billion high-energy-consuming Americans by 2100" and notes that much of the population growth is happening in ecologically sensitive areas of the U.S. South and West.

People will adapt. People change climate, climate changes people. The interaction, per Mother Gaia. As we improve on Nature, more people

Faith of King Canute, combined with modern technology, not a Doom.
Projects can make Earth more fertile, even the temperature profile ?

Funny this:
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=09&fd=10&fy=2007&sm=09&sd=10&sy=2008

Isn't paranoia inducing. Also funny, CNN carried a report about how at this time the betting pool at a certain climate research group was going 50/50 that the cap _would disappear_ (funny too that they wouldn't take my bet the cowards).

Oops. And it got bigger. Oops. And the sunspots hit a record low that scientific consensus thought was impossible. Oops again.

Trees! Mankind has cut down so many trees without replacing them that, of course, our planet is now out of balance. Trees take in CO2 and breathe out O2 during the photosynthesis process. Trees naturally clean the air of toxins, and they provide the shade which cools the Earth. Shade from trees thus cools the winds that blow across the Earth. Those facts in mind.... As I look at hurrican after hurrican spinning off the coast of Africa, I think, "Why is Africa so hot that as soon as the winds that come off the African continent hit the cooler winds over the Atlantic Ocean they begin to spin hurricans? That does not happen off our coasts....why?" The answer...trees!

One look at the African continent and one can see the problem stick out like a soar thumb. The whole continent of Africa is fast becoming dessert because the trees of Africa are almost all gone. The vast desserts of Africa have almost no trees. Desserts will happen where trees have been cut down en mass. Desserts generate a lot of hot air. The air over the African continent heats up like a furnace over a hot burner. Then, when that hot air reaches the coast... it begins to spin. The African continent's heated air generates hurricans which spin down around toward to the south, then on up toward the Carribbian. Then, they spin on up toward the North American continental coast fallowing the wind current's movement all the way up to the Arctic. Voila, the ice melts!

But the air currents are not all that get heated. The ocean water isself gets taken up into the hot wind torrents and the ocean water becomes more heated than it once was. As this additionally heated water fallows it's natural course up the North American coast... where does it end up? Greenland and the Arctic are the next stop on the beaten path. Melting happens...the heat exchange happens. Then the cooled winds and waters cycle back southward toward the African continent.The hurricans form again.... everthing on Earth is cyclical. Thus, both the wind and the waters surrounding the Arctic end up being warmer than they once were because the winds and the tides are extra-heated by the hot winds that originate over the desserts of Africa.

So, the answer is trees! Planting trees. If we plant trees in Africa and replenish the Earth's total tree populations overall, we will cool down those winds by putting back the natural CO2 to O2 recyclers/air coolers, the trees! We must plant trees back into place to do their jobs again. Trees... the natural solution to the Artic ice meltdown. If we are to save the world from global warming we had better go after the source of the problem. Humans have cut down so many trees without plantng mor, we are overheating our planet!

Hard to eat a tree, perhaps add greenhouses, lakes and canals, all over
Circulating heat and water to even out rain and drought, cold and hot.

I agree with you Vicki, your supported statements concerning the population trend could very well be a contributer here. The question is, can the population go backwards in their energy consumptions and continue to move forward?

Othersarah, I think that we can lay off of the tree problem here in the US. It is a federal requirement that any business that produces tree pulp for paper products has to plant trees to replace the ones used. They do this by rotating the forests that they grow from.

Extreme Perversion, Macabre fantasies of the population haters.
"As king of Trannsylvania, Vlad declared war on poverty. He invited all the poor people and beggars to a grand feast in a castle. He then locked all of the exits and burned the castle down. He even said, "I did this so there would be no poor in my realm."

Poor, starving, cannot vote, invite to a feast, Jojful EcoOpulence, afterwards, for the deciders, for a while, then do again, approximate to idealized, sustainability standards. .

Finally: "Last week this new, shorter Northwest Passage's navigability was dramatically demonstrated ... astonished Eskimo cheers from both crews echoed" - see Sep. 13 Time Magazine report - http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,770864-2,00.html

f yea dam crackers

srry

jhk

Melting ice, indicator of variability, find the switches and thermostatic controls
Can we avoid the coming Ice Age ? Gaia, the temperature happy camper ?

Comfort and Human expanson to every latitude, Bible swarm commanded
Not Ice Cube preservation, Earth not to become the Museum of Ice Hell.

I think that the ice is braking apart due to the warming of summer winds heading up to the ice and braking the ice off . Due to gobel warming

Dan: " I think I understand, by reading your comments, you prefer the Earth to be a big sandbox. I hope I am mistaken."

Warm sandy beaches, a consequence of improving the climate.
Too warm is the Gulf of Mexico, warm poor is the Arctic,
Two miserables can make two happy ?

Animation by Dan, showing the churning of ice, near the North Pole formed, eventually pushed to Beaufort Gyre and North Atlantic. There is little cross circulation. Ocean temperatures warm up trying to gyre from Atlantic to Pacific Ocean.

"Arctic researchers say we’re in for another bad year "

But not as bad as last year suggesting a reversal of the warming trend!

The sky is falling, the sky is falling... oh wait... maybe not.

I'm no rocket surgeon... but ice melts in the summer, then in winter it forms again. At least once or twice long ago there was a mile thick chunck of ice covering parts of the United States. Must have been some really wild global warming going on then, on a scale that would dwarf what we see now. So the mile thick ice all melted away... then it came back again, and melted again. Go figure.

Ice melts!

You know what… In 1261, Greenland became part of the Kingdom of Norway and the relatively mild climate allowed farming of livestock and for many centuries Greenland was occupied by Vikings. Then something happened… it got real cold, cold enough to drive the Vikings away forever! This was called the Little Ice Age and it occurred from the 16th century to the 19th century.

Gosh… you don’t suppose the Earth goes through mini warming and cooling cycles do ya?

What greenhouse gas was the culprit back in the 1200’s?

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Again!

ok, ok, there are some that believe that we are still coming out of an ice age and that global warming is just the natural direction that the earth is evolving. If this means wiping out the coast lines and leaving millions homeless, I guess that it is just the natural course of things. Maybe green house gas is not the culpret 100% but we could work on finding ways to stop contributing to the problem.

The water is rising...the water is rising...

"there are some that believe that we are still coming out of an ice age and that global warming is just the natural direction that the earth is evolving."

Earth became an Ice Planet when North and South America joined
http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/viewArticle.do?id=2508

"If this means wiping out the coast lines and leaving millions homeless, I guess that it is just the natural course of things."

No, does not mean that !
Centuries to adapt. Past the return time of all, but very old historic buildings. Imaginative system of dykes and canals, riwer sediment pumped to make giant mounds, safe coastlines. Man, deweloping and constructing now mowes more than nature. Abowe nature, we are, Earth, our home, not EcoNatureZombie hapharded, but designed, decorated for maximum warmth and sandy beaches. Nuke the Isthmus of Panama. Warm the North, Little heat left for, Antarctica, the new Ice Bear home. Antarctic ice growing, lowering ocean lewels, exposing continental shelwes. Optimize happines, Reduce hurricanes. Not crocodile green tears for the emigrant Ice Bears. Right Whales able to join with long isolated relatiwes. Maybe ewen filter plastics conveniently gyrating through the newly created Panatomic anal ?

"Maybe green house gas is not the culpret 100% but we could work on finding ways to stop contributing to the problem."

What problem ?
Useless scares, without understanding, CO2 taxing to death world economy.

"The water is rising…the water is rising…"

Imagine the possibility ! Compute the area of continental shelf exposure, if we cool Antarctica, Make Antarctica the ice museum, not North America !

The extent of the sea ice in the Arctic has reached its annual minimum, and is now beginning to re-freeze, according to data released by the National Snow and Ice Data Center this week. This year's minimum came on September 12, and came close to, but did not exceed, last year's record minimum set on September 16, 2007. For the second straight year, the fabled Northwest Passage explored by Roald Amundsen in 1905 opened. Explorers have been attempting to sail the Northwest Passage since 1497, and 2007 and 2008 are the only known years the passage has been ice-free. In addition, 2008 saw the simultaneous opening of the Northeast Passage along the coast of Russia. This means that for the first time in recorded history, the Arctic ice cap was an island, and one could completely circumnavigate the Arctic Ocean in ice-free waters.

from: weatherunderground.com

"Explorers have been attempting to sail the Northwest Passage since 1497, and 2007 and 2008 are the only known years the passage has been ice-free"

Northwest Passage II Monday, Sep. 13, 1937
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,770864-2,00.html
Year was 1937 -– 3 years after 1934, the warmest year.

Ice death of the North, may not logically reduce hurricanes or tropical warmth.
Heat not Poles escaping, Hyper Eco hurricanes via T^4

Why do so many people laugh and joke about this?. what we have done to are planet is very real. We have to take this very serious. If only the world could come together on hs matter. then and onl then would we have a small chance of turning this aound.

God Bless....................... our world

Man is not responsible for similar trends with the ice caps of Mars.

Everyone dies. After you are dead, what do you care if there are other people alive. Global warming has not been proven to be manmade, but a carbon tax will certainly cause millions of people a premature death and cause wars and mass human suffering. If the global warming Nazi's are correct, then at most, it will shorten everyone's life for 80 years, and the planet will rid itself of the human infestation.

If you believe in God, maybe this is what the bible tells us. If you do not believe in God, then what do you care? Don't have kids.

We will continue to make, lame and weak denouncations of our destruction of all the beautiful creature's, and the systematic destruction of the most beautiful forest's,jungle's,ocean's etc. TILL OUR VERY LAST BREATH. We humans are the most despicable infestation on earth.

I, FOR ONE HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE HUMAN SPECIE WILL NOT SAVE THE WORLD, we ARE TO ........Greedy, STUPID, and every ugly word you can think of. Peter John Mills Johannesburg South Africa

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