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April 29, 2010

Steve Jobs: Why Apple snubs Flash

Posted: 11:50 AM ET

Apple CEO Steve Jobs on Thursday said 200,000 applications are available in his company's mobile app store - and they all benefit because they're not built in Flash.

In a post on Apple's website, Jobs listed reasons none of those apps support Flash, a format that supports video, animation, games and other content and is made by tech competitor Adobe.

Some tech bloggers have criticized Apple for not supporting Flash on its mobile devices, including the iPad, iPhone and iPod. But Jobs said Adobe Flash is a format for the past.

Performance, not business strategy, guides Apple's decision not to use the format, he said.

"Flash was created during the PC era – for PCs and mice," he wrote in the post. "Flash is a successful business for Adobe, and we can understand why they want to push it beyond PCs. But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards – all areas where Flash falls short."

Adobe has complained its business "could be harmed" by Apple's decision not to use the format.

Jobs listed several specific reasons Apple doesn't use Flash. Some of the more interesting ones:

_ "iPhone, iPod and iPad users aren’t missing much video," he wrote.

_Apple products run more reliably without Flash: "Flash is the number one reason Macs crash."

_Flash isn't made for touch-screen devices: "... Many Flash websites rely on 'rollovers,' which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot." Apple's touch screens don't use rollovers.

_And, most important, Jobs said, is that Flash slows down app development: " We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers."

What do you think? Is Jobs right, or should Apple support Flash on its devices?

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Filed under: Apple • iPad • iPhone • iPod


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John   May 3rd, 2010 6:00 pm ET

Apple snubs Flash because they don't control it, simple enough. Wish Jobs would be honest.


tkm   May 3rd, 2010 7:17 pm ET

Always a MS PC guy until I finally broke down and got an iphone. This device alone has made me an apple fan. My next laptop will definitely be an apple because VISTA was forced on me when I bought a new laptop 2 years ago and it has been the slowest, worst operating system I have ever used. Jobs knows what he is talking about and I could not agree more about the slowness of FLASH.


Sagian   May 3rd, 2010 10:42 pm ET

Flash is a clunky, buggy, cpu hog even on the newest generation of PCs. As someone who owns and loves both his PC and his Mac, I can say I despise Flash on either platform. Unfortunately, I have to tolerate it due to its presence on the web.

Thank goodness for 'Flashblock'.


Anex   May 4th, 2010 5:27 am ET

In my opinion, it is because if they allowed flash they wouldn't be able to charge for all those "apps" that people buy so they can do something with their iCrap.
Have you seen their ads? They use those applications as a key selling point.
They can argue that Flash is slow and horrible performance, but I installed iTunes on my computer yesterday.. it had to update as soon as I installed it (learn to update your website with the latest version?) and it installed 4 other programs along with it (without asking mind you, I was only asked if I wanted to add quick time and safari) that were the biggest resource hogs I have ever seen. They have no room to be talking at all.
To think a lot of Apple's market is computer illiterate and they are slowing down their computers with this junk. I couldn't uninstall that crap fast enough (no really I couldn't, there was so much hidden left over files it was disgusting)


Dennis   May 4th, 2010 11:36 am ET

Jobs is wrong.

Even though flash might not have the features Jobs is looking for;

– We need a cross platform content distribution and interaction system.
– If flash crashes OS X, it is not a good selling point of either Apple or OS X. Who wants an OS that crashes?
– Flash is standard today, even though their product team is not thinking very strategic.
– There is no cross platform alternative today that is good enough, Apple would benefit much from integrating flash into their product.
– Flash is a part of any browser today, until there is a good alternative it does not make sence not integrating it.
– Adobe has been empowering Macs for a very long time by making sure their products run better on Mac than on PC, it is sad to see such a strategic partnership go to waste.
– Logic is a good example how the professionals move to a professional platform such as Pro-tools instead of a production environment that seems to be more user friendly than productive for professionals.
– All mac geeks where very happy when OS X came and we finally got a good kernel. They have contributed much to the open source community and closing doors seems like a strategic move, not a technical move. Taking away the freedom of the user has always been Apples largest enemy, now pride seems to be in the way again.
– I predict that if Apple keeps this up they will indeed be gone from the market once again. It is very sad to see.


Anon   May 4th, 2010 12:18 pm ET

The only ones who are saying Steve Jobs is right are him and his accountants (and a few trolls). Everyone knows the real reason is that he would lose control of what could and couldn't be put on and used on an "iProduct" if he allowed flash on them.

Don't get me wrong I think their products have some good merits and cool functions but unless he starts making these products more open he will see more market share loss after creating the market in the first place. Like the reduced sales of the iPod and reduced market share of the iPhone. I think the idea of the iPad is cool (if having a head waggle worthy name), but when I can get a cheaper one that runs say Chrome OS or Windows mobile or some Linux distro that will allow me to put what I want on it and treat it like an ultra light netpad (netbook/notepad) that runs the flash from web sites and apps and other things that put the 200,000 itunes apps to shame; well the choice is easy at that point.


Jim   May 4th, 2010 12:34 pm ET

I think Apple is under no obligation to help Adobe succeed. I also think this is a good opportunity for Adobe to re-invent their business model. If the market is leaving them behind, calling foul seems like bad form. They should raise their bar and come up with something new that keeps their business viable and that is less platform dependent.

In turn, Apple buyers should vote with their dollars. If the level of available content is frustrating to them, they should buy a phone that allows for Flash related content. Lower sales would send the message to Apple that they are missing the market's needs. Right now, Apple's sales would lead me to believe that the level of content available meets the needs of most smart phone users. Thus, the popularity.


Long Time Techster   May 4th, 2010 1:36 pm ET

I agree with Jobs 100%. Comparing the PC experience and the mobile experience is like comparing a Harley to a Segway. The whole premise of the exponential growth of the internet and web based, mobile technologies is open development platforms. Flash is slow, bloated and proprietary. It looks great on my flat panel, but it could definitely use an overhaul.

The flip side of his argument is that its hard to hear about how open, fast platforms should be used in the mobile arena (i.e. the iPhone/iPad) when Apple's only content delivery mechanism is slow, proprietary and bloated. If I want to make an iApp, I have to pay to download the SDK. All of the alternatives Jobs has previously listed to Flash are free.

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black???


Chris S   May 4th, 2010 6:35 pm ET

Who cares about Flash video? As consumers, everyone has a choice. If you want a mobile device with a flash player, get a freaking netbook or laptop.

Oh I'm sorry. You'd rather pay for a STYLE than functionality? WOW! GO FIGURE!


Big Bucks   May 5th, 2010 1:18 am ET

if we dont need flash show me the money .... show me something new ...... you hav to rem.. they are born in the damn 70's do you think steve designed the F ipad no ... new kids on the block .... it would be nice to use flash on a ipad .... if it f up my ipad or crashed let me deside i bought the f thing.... dont sell me a car and say i can oldy buy gas from only china🙂 ..... flash may be old buy at least i can see whats important to me useing it..... most general people dont know how to format a floppy more less telling people about plash .... my first computer was a vic 20 .... 1 KB of memory... UNTIL THE IPAD CAN LOAD ANY WEB PAGE ... THEN YOU CAN SAY YOUR THE KING .... I HAVE 4 MAC'S DONT TELL ME ..... IF YOU HAD FLASH ON THE IPAD I WOULDNT NEED A NETBOOK ..... WE NEED MORE YES WE CAN AND A LITTLE NO WE CANT ... APPLE SOLD 1 MILLION IPADS = HAPPY ... IF IT HAD FLASH OR A FORM OF IT ID SELL MY NETBOOK ... IF MYSPACE OR FACE BOOK ITS SO F POPULAR WHY IS IT THAT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE USE IT ..... DONT TAKE US TO A t SHOW AND SAY WE CANT SPEND MONEY JUST DESIGN IT AND MAKE IT HAPPEN


Joel   May 5th, 2010 6:39 am ET

Look at all you bunch of losers commenting on such a useless thing in this world.
"Steve Jobs is right, Steve Jobs is right." like he was your god or something. Who cares if he's right? No one here has importance.
Learn, humans!


1010110 Jobs and his iCrap   May 5th, 2010 11:32 am ET

Closed systems = Closed Minds

Steve Jobs is the ultimate big baby, that's why all his stuff comes prebuilt with a prima donna insert of super hype! "Oh wow look at this awesome piece of shiny crap! It will tell me what to do and how I should be controlled by my devices."

People always always ask me which is better the PC or the MAC and it isn't even close. If anything Jobs builds isn't worthless in 6 months he goes out of business! PC's looklike gods next to MAC's by comparison and any platform worth it's salt will follow PC and tell Apple to stick a worm in it- cause you're done fool!


Shaman   May 5th, 2010 1:50 pm ET

I wonder how badly Mac sales will be hurt when Adobe announces that there won't be a Mac version of CS6? I'd say Flash support would come around pretty quickly if Adobe threatened to abandon the entire Mac platform.


Rino   May 5th, 2010 2:05 pm ET

" We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available.."

Steve Jobs is correct. How long have we all been waiting for a 64bit version and up to now there's none available.


Computerlame   May 5th, 2010 4:54 pm ET

I think it would be nothing short of spectacular if Adobe completely stopped all support for Apple products and let Steve Jobs see what the iConsequences are for his attempt at monopolistic iBusiness practices for iTune apps.


Pica   May 5th, 2010 11:52 pm ET

It's obvious that Apple should allow Flash to run on it's devices. If the apps don't run right or crash the iphone or ipad then people will stop using those apps. So, then Adobe will adjust and fix the shortcomings the Jobs pointed out.


RBN   May 6th, 2010 1:06 am ET

I've owned PCs since they were invented. I have to admit that I hesitated buying a Mac due to all of the negative information being offered by so many of you helpful people. When I finally bought one last year, I quickly came to an inescapable conclusion; you’re all full of crap. I now own an iMac, iPod and iPad and couldn’t be happier. Yes, I do kind of miss constantly patching security holes and rebuilding my PCs, but I guess I’ll have to settle for peace of mind.

To anyone that’s ever considered buying a Mac but, like me, was dissuaded by the anti-Apple disinformation, just do it! You’ll wonder why you waited so long.


patricio   May 6th, 2010 2:43 pm ET

I feel we should have the option as users. If we decide to install flash on iPad or iPhone or iPod we would scrifce "x" things in exchange for "y" things. Mabe by installing flash many apps would NOT work for example.
I feel Jobs is correct as a business owner controlling his overall strategies but us consumers need options that he MIGHT or MIGHT NOT like.
In the end it is up to us to absorb or repell an idea. I have NO doubt that if no one bought iPads for the lack of flash, flash would be introduced into the device in a matter of hours.


muts   May 6th, 2010 3:15 pm ET

Well, he 'ain't' rollin' over that's for sure. =)...lol....does anyone need 'tums?' ....a show of hands please and I'll go fetch it in my left pocket😉 lol..


muts   May 6th, 2010 3:24 pm ET

Well, he ain't rollin' over that's for sure =) lol...does anyone need 'Tums?' A show or a clap of hands people, and I'll run and fetch it in my left pocket! woof, woof....;) lol....


muts   May 6th, 2010 3:32 pm ET

OOps...I mean....woofer, woofer...I think? what the hell....woof, woof...wuff, wuff, ruff, ruff, ruff...;) lol...


muts   May 6th, 2010 4:32 pm ET

hmmm...interesting 1010110 Jobs and his ICrap....
If Closed System = Closed Mind? then
Open System = Open Mind? hmmm...but
what if : Closed System = Open Mind then
Open System = Closed Mind? hmmm...
therefore...it's an Open & Shut System? or a...
Shut & Open System?...hmmm? did some one say
'Shutter Home?' I'll call for Alcohol? ehh? =)
Ohh...woe is me....to crap or not crap?
What is my platform? hmm..that is the question...
if plate = platter and
Shutter Home = alcohol
then grand salami = platform? ehh?
doggone it... that if, then, butt possibility crap!


Jon   May 6th, 2010 7:28 pm ET

Im using my new 64gb wifi iPad right now and its just perfect. I still haven't run into any problems. The more I use it the more I like it. Get one and you will be hooked. Its worth the money!!! Flash? It's been upped by html5. Sorry adobe, get with html5 and stop complaining.


poopsicle   May 7th, 2010 9:39 am ET

poopy pants


Russ   May 7th, 2010 1:07 pm ET

Since when could a company tell me what plugins im allowed to use? No thx, nexus 1 here i come. Apple is just the new microsoft.


epandroid24   May 7th, 2010 1:20 pm ET

steve jobs is a mad brainwasher, look i know it makes sense when he says that flash isnt meant for touch screen devices.... of course not most web sites are still viewed on computers with mouses!

this guy thinks he owns the world...

why cant he just make a UI update to the browser on iphone and ipod/pad that enables users to tap and hold on menus so they pop up and stay open? as easy as that!!!!!

flash works very well on my ANDROID running skyfire,

and flash worked awersome on my WM phone with skyfire as well!

hes puttin the blame on adobe, and as some users stated, he just wants to force people to buy apps!


Louis C.K.   May 7th, 2010 1:53 pm ET

As Louis C.K. says on U toob "EVERYTHING IS AMAZING, AND NOBODY IS HAPPY!" ... Anyone remember rotary phones with the big dial on the front and the wires that attached it to the wall. so what if you can't watch a movie on your phone while you're waiting in the drive through for your over-sized cheeseburgers. If its that big of a deal, don't use the phone. I am from generation X, I'm all good with using technology. But, I think people are being big babies about this.


MattL   May 7th, 2010 6:55 pm ET

Steve Jobs is selling a false pitch. I'm not a huge flash fan but to deny it's need in a web based device is just delusional (my iPhone's web browsing is definitely limited due to this).

His comments on an open platform is full of it, completely bs. Apple has a stranglehold on their platform and every app has to be approved by them, they can flex their control muscle at any time and it's far from being anything close to what he mentions as open. Apple has always been closed development and even though they've made it easier with their latest changes they've made even that more closed. They are the practically the furthest thing from being open and the entire purpose of rejecting Flash is to keep it closed and under control.

The sad thing is people will buy his pitch because he uses just enough truth to sell his lies.

This is exactly why developing for Apple platforms is painful and unpredictable, you never know when they'll flex their control muscles.


Jacob Heitkamp   May 7th, 2010 9:29 pm ET

Who cares – Apples are not real computers anyway


Armando Villasmil   May 8th, 2010 3:58 am ET

Wanna know if Steve Jobs is right or not? Follow the money trail my friends... just follow it.


Allen   May 8th, 2010 12:26 pm ET

This time I like what Steve said about flash. He is right about it.


Rich   May 9th, 2010 8:29 am ET

Please, Jobs doesn't like flash because jobs likes to control content and keep his hands in the money pie. Lets call it what it is – business strategy.

Websites use flash, iPad doesn't, thus the iPad is the worst browser released since before Netscape 4.7. Bad news for consumers.


Philip   May 10th, 2010 2:34 am ET

Come on people. If this was Bill Gates saying no flash we would call for his head. But since it's Steve Jobs it's ok. Well it is not. We do not live in the old USSR. Let me decide what I want on my iPad. I paid for it.


Casey Wang   May 10th, 2010 9:12 am ET

Yes, Flash is not web accessibility friendly. Gives lots of problems for the visually impaired.

U.S. Govt websites and all their contractors.............do they use Flash? I don't think so, but maybe in limited amounts.

As more Governments and web designers take up the web accessibility cause, the Dinosaur will be in retreat unless they change the technology, somehow. Like they did with the PDF format.


Prasad Mulpuru   May 10th, 2010 9:38 am ET

I dont agree ,First of all the apple Iphone ia having a low memory which will me restricting high performance apps,there by they goto in to simple apps ,they have restricted the flash to be in a better side of not poiting out there minus points ,But if this will be the same in the next version of Iphone ,Then the HTC & black berry devices will take over the market very soon
If they can compare the number of apps that can be run at a time on a Iphone /Black beery /HTC that will pooin t out there heads down per sure .
Apple has made there way out on Iphone's with a new classic look ..Its time for them to deliver some High performance and compatibility stuff .


Emman Lijesta   May 10th, 2010 10:48 am ET

You know what, I've been using flash and so far... I agree with Steve Jobs. He is right.


Ben   May 10th, 2010 2:30 pm ET

Flash = Vector Graphics.

Vector Graphics = Simple animations and small file sizes.
( those that you use in word and excel and any other application that has resizable graphics who's quality does not change with size – unlike bitmaps and jpg and mpg and so fourth who's quality decreases when enlarged – hence "pixilation" problems – and are often huge in size)

By saying "Flash" is preventing development, he's basically suggesting the Vector Graphics are useless; What a complete idiot!!

If he has something thats so much better, EVERYONE would be rushing to use it and sell it and build for it. BUT THAT HASNT happened.

Demand is the true judge of value and worth.


Ben   May 10th, 2010 2:31 pm ET

I love the people who think Flash is its own component.

Flash, yes the name of the program, is based upon the Generic VECTOR GRAPHICS.

ALL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES USE VECTOR GRAPHICS.


Mike   May 10th, 2010 3:26 pm ET

Jobs is spot on!


‘Toy Story 3′ website, as seen on the iPad | iPhone News   May 10th, 2010 3:30 pm ET

[...] of amusing when you consider the fact that Apple CEO Steve Jobs, who has been posting lately about how much of a problem Flash is, was a Pixar co-founder and now serves on Disney's board of [...]


Echo   May 10th, 2010 3:57 pm ET

"Funny. The only application that makes my PC crash is Apple Itunes."

Epic!


Nick   May 10th, 2010 7:49 pm ET

Adobe should stop selling Photoshop for Macs, then Jobs will squeal and finally give people a choice to run flash on THEIR devices.


Eyon   May 10th, 2010 8:53 pm ET

When Adobe took over the Macromedia web dev. environment, I knew from my experience with adobe reader (memory hog) they would take the suite of products down with memory issues. Adobe will bring you a lot of irritating, fat (memory and CPU intensive) applications to your desktop. You better hope that you have at least 4 gig of memory in your machine to run it and that you have a good help desk crew to figure out all of the obscure errors you will receive. Go Steve.


Hazna.lt iTech | 'Toy Story 3' is back up on the iPad, Disney says   May 11th, 2010 8:49 am ET

[...] when you consider the fact that Apple CEO Steve Jobs, who has been posting lately about how much of a problem Flash is, was a Pixar co-founder and now serves on Disney's board of [...]


‘Toy Story 3′ is back up on the iPad, Disney says   May 11th, 2010 10:03 am ET

[...] of amusing when you consider the fact that Apple CEO Steve Jobs, who has been posting lately about how much of a problem Flash is, was a Pixar co-founder and now serves on Disney's board of [...]


Today In Tech: No Verizon iPhone, The Wii Killer, etc | Live Smart & Play Hard   May 11th, 2010 12:17 pm ET

[...] and the iPhone has been extended to 2012.  In iPad news here's some insight into why Apple decided not to have the device 'Flash' compliant and what they plan to do about it with their own [...]


Ken   May 11th, 2010 2:27 pm ET

hillarious to hear jobs talking about openness.


Bryon Reece (sonic frequency)   May 12th, 2010 2:30 am ET

EVERYONE!! THE ANDROID HTC PHONE HAS FLASH!!! I TESTED IT OUT AND IT WORKS FINE!!!! I’m a web developer and I had to find out myself if flash is available on any phone and it is!! I tested out multiple flash sites on the phone and it works beautifully. ALL APPLE USERS OF iPHONE and iPAD just got screwed by Steve Jobs decision to cut you out of great technology.


Robert   May 13th, 2010 11:11 am ET

I think the points steve jobs' made are valid. But I would much prefer that consumers have a decision on this.

Why not, have it as an option on settings. Where people can enable or disable it. Choice must prevail. The only thing Apple should ban are apps that can be seen as harmful. Like spyware or a virus, I don't think Flash is any of these things. However, if it does have security flaws, then Apple are within their rights to not support it.


Dan   May 13th, 2010 12:33 pm ET

Consumers should have the choice to use flash on 'their' product or not to, not Mr Jobs. We already use flash on many websites and to be restricted because of some self interest tech guru for his monetary advantage is madness. Evolving backwards in technology such as the 'New' Ipad with no camera/video or more connectivity choices is a rip off by Mr Jobs. It's like making a car without a radio and someone explaining its better because the engine runs faster with more electricity......and we all get brainwashed ....Again!!!


Reggie   May 13th, 2010 12:54 pm ET

At first i didnt understand why apple didnt use flash. Now based on his explanation, it makes sense.


Chris Mapple   May 13th, 2010 4:10 pm ET

What ever his reasons are the facts are:
1. Everyone wishes the iphone supported flash

2. In the long run apple will wish they supported flash

3. I will not buy an Iphone because there is no flash...

4. Droid does Flash...


Les Ismore   May 13th, 2010 8:24 pm ET

There are technical reasons for not having Flash on mobile devices but there are also some very important business strategy reasons also, and for Jobs to argue that his only reason is technical is disingenuous.


Shubha Bhonsle   May 14th, 2010 5:53 am ET

It would be nice if Apple is truly open and allow users multimedia products based on Flash. An effective deterent warning can keep hard core Apple users and most others from using Flash based products!


Ed   May 14th, 2010 7:49 am ET

Sean,

In response to your quip...

"he's making sure Apple is the monopolistic empire that Microsoft tried to be."

Are you trying to insinuate Steve does not care about the Apple product users...or are you trying to say Steve is trying to be Bill?

Either way.... it has been the enormous popularity AND stability of the Apple platform which has made Apple what it is today....sorry Bill...or whoever is running Microsoft these days.

But

It has been the alliance with ATT and the pricing of Apple products that has kept the "Mainstream" from adopting the Apple platform rather than the PC.

Apple is moving in the right direction but they have to lose their snoddyness and quit insisting on having it their way if they are to progress in the PC marketplace.

Selling Apple products in Best Buy is a good move.... Selling at Wal-Mart would be even better.

Good luck Steve.


Gregg   May 14th, 2010 9:58 am ET

Not missing much video?!?!?!?

Really!!!

I sure can't watch Hulu on my iPhone!!!!

That's a lot of video content I am missing!!!


Kevin   May 21st, 2010 2:48 pm ET

What about the fact that flash is a vector-based application? Are we expected to manually program vector animations and functionality every time we develop something for the web? Absolute stupidity...


Wm. Winder   May 27th, 2010 12:09 pm ET

I use a 64bit O/S on my PC...would like to use the 64bit IE exclusively but cannot because Flash does not support the 64bit version of that product (it will work on a 32bit version of IE running on a 64bit O/S but…well…you get the point). Jobs is right.


SilversleevesX   June 16th, 2010 8:38 am ET

As a longtime (but no longer) Mac home user, I've often wondered what the difference would be if Jobs left the co. through retirement or some other circumstance. Judging from past evidence (Jean-Louis Gassee and his eleventh-hour snub of Acorn being one example), I reckon the answer would be "not much at all." Count on this much – Steve-O has at least half a dozen "mini-me's" ready to step into that corner office and sit in the Big Guy's chair. They're just waiting their chance.

As I see it, Steve Jobs' pricing philosophy rests on the premise that "Not everyone deserves to own a home computer." Once I puzzled that out, I was pleasantly surprised at how many other things Apple has done over the years made more sense.

I think the link between Flash and LSOs has been given short shrift in this thread of replies. Jobs might not like Flash because he is unaware, or refuses to make himself aware, that LSOs are probably easier to remove from a portable device than an ordinary desktop PC or Mac. Even given the fact that the first iPhones ran a bare-bones build of OS X, I'm willing to bet a nickel to a dollar that the usual Unix directory structure was likewise simplified with an eye towards keeping things safe from "burrowed-in" cookies and what have you. With that in mind, does anyone think it possible that Jobs and Apple eschew Flash because, as the article seems to assert then repeat, they find it unnecessary?

Take what you like and leave the rest.

SilversleevesX
15 years Mac, 5 in OS X.


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